Aircraft Review : Embraer E-Jet 170LR Evolution by SSG

[Stephen]

 

Aircraft Review : Embraer E-Jet 170LR Evolution by SSG

 

Supercritical Simulation Group's (SSG) first release was the Embraer E-Jet E-170 back in 2013. At the time of the release the aircraft was a step forward with many good ideas and features and the aircraft flew very well. But in X-Plane times move along quickly and what was once good can be average in a short space of time. But the basics were good and certainly with the external model, but the internal cockpit quickly showed its age.

 

So here is the "Evolution" of that aircraft in the "E-Jet 170 Evolution", yes the word is in there to represent that this is a complete move forward in from that original concept and SSG have also kept the best of the original design and have completely redesigned the weaker areas and incorporated also the best ideas and features of their Boeing 748i Series aircraft.

 

 

 

From the outside the E170LR Evo looks pretty much the same, and so it should as it was a very pretty aircraft in the first place.

 

 

But the external design has had quite a significant makeover, detail is multiplied by a huge degree. Certainly a few major items have been retained like the landing gear, but overall the differences between the two images below as they are now vastly different.... as a highlight look at the detail and rivet work around the front cargo door. Just look at the door hinge and the wing light assembly and even the text is now readable.

 

 

The cockpit has had an even bigger makeover, from the old...

 

 

....      to the Evo new

 

 

No trickery or Photoshop effects here, just the different versions in the same place and time. You can see how dull the displays are compared to the brightness of the new versions.

 

 

Certainly a huge advance over the earlier displays, and I really like the inner lighter to darker surrounds in the Artificial Horizon area and the new Vertical Profile feature. But there are two things that are to be noted. The text is in "bold" and not the ordinary "regular" and that makes the text look bloated and more blurry than it should, and all the displays don't have any cockpit reflections, which is standard-normal today with aircraft in this price range.

 

Otherwise you are looking at a complete redesign of the panels, textures and only a few small panel items are carried over.

 

Overhead panel looks better as well. Old version on the left and the new Evo version on the right, and in content nothing is different, but everything is new including the overhead map lights.

 

 

Centre pedestal looks the same, but again the refinements are discrete but highly effective, the Communication Panel shows the higher detail. One thing is very different on the pedestal though is the FMC, we will get to that in a moment.

 

 

Menus

 

 

The Evo's menu's have had a big makeover. In the original the single menu was covered by a grainy view of the rear cabin, which looked a little crappy. Now you have a twin option display and a third position with a blank screen.

 

First options page (1) covers the external items in: Doors, Pushback and GPU - Show/hide: Yoke, Seat, Rain and Stair - Field of View and select lbs or kg. (All doors and windows are available on Custom Key sliders as well if required.)

 

Second Options page (2) covers aircraft setup with: Aircraft payload with % percentages, ZFW (Zero Fuel Weight) & Payload weight, Payload settings and Fuel load and defuel. You can do the fuel either manually or use the FMC for loading.

 

The options now available on the Evo are great, and are far better than the small list on the Original version. All doors now open, including the front and rear service doors. Lower cargo doors are also now usable as well.

 

 

Cockpit windows can also be opened (below), but only on the menu and not by the usual handle grab and pull which feels odd.

 

 

Excellent GPU (Ground Power Unit) and an outstanding feature is the excellent stand/stairs, with the great idea of when you change the livery the logos on the stand also change...  Brilliant!

 

 

Pushback truck is very well modeled, but is that stick pendulum action that is used on SSG's B748i which I am not crazy about, it is hard to use as you can only control it (forward/Aft) by the menu and you can't look in two places at once...  you need key options to make it effective.

 

Both the Yoke and Captain's seat can be hidden, but with both out you have quite a hole in there, one click also hides both yokes.

 

Cabin

 

 

The cabin has been overhauled with a more modern dark/grey look with snazzy lighting compared to the more late nineties look (above left lower). It looks very nice but there are issues with the movement from the flightdeck rearwards. Open the door and use the X-Plane keys to head to your seat and there is gap between the two virtual sections, sometimes you get through but sometimes you don't...  It gets weirder in finding your view out you find missing pieces of the aircraft and in this case the airbrake spoilers (above right lower) are missing? With a lot of the cabin blinds either closed or half open your view selection is also limited. Beacon shines away on the ceiling as well.

 

Flying the E-Jet 170 Evolution

 

Route: KATL (Atlanta) to KDCA (Washington National)

 

 

DAL375 is the perfect route for this aircraft, a hop to the upper eastern seaboard in a shuttle service from Atlanta to Washington.

 

 

The E-Jet 170LR Evo now comes with the functional Honeywell Primus Epic 1000 FMC that is housed in two Multifunction Control Display Units (MCDU) at the top of the pedestal. This version is provided by Javier Cortes under the FJCC banner.

 

The FMC faceplate pops-out for ease of input and use, and click with the F8” key in Windows and Linux with “fn” and “F8” keys simultaneously on a Mac to make the pop-up visible.

 

 

Javier Cortes makes great FMC's with a lot of functions and details, but the interface is not very elegant and highly procedural. Get an input wrong and there is no get out but to start all over again, or mess up all your load's of time and work already submitted to the system. And that makes them frustrating to use until you finally work out the correct way that Jarvier is thinking and has set out the route to get all the inputs in line correct to get the final result. It works well when you do understand it, but the system is totally unforgiving, which unlike Philipp Münzel's designs that if you make a mistake you then just correct it, then "Exec" (Execute) and move on with your programming.

 

 

But confusion reigns when you load in your SID (Standard Instrument Departure) and mostly over and over in that the "Exec" is actually the "Route" button, where as normally "Route" takes you to the flightplan to load in your waypoints. There is no "Exec" either? so any changes are hard to input and "route" with the input point remember then disappears? To make clear there are two "Route" functions in RTE and ROUTE?

 

Add in more confusion in the fact that "Route" changes to "Step" in the flightplan (FPL) mode and that then becomes the "Exec" button and as you go through the flightplan the with the STEP (after doing a "Exec" to insert the current flightplan) then the <CTR> position position disappears after the first click down?

 

 

Get to your Flightplan and you will be scratching your head in that the departure airport is noted as your arrival airport? (upper right). There is a "DIrect" function but no "DIR" button to activate it. When I did save the (hard won) completed route it didn't save the file?

 

There is a good "Quick Start" manual that covers a full route from Seattle (SEA) to Los Angeles (LAX) including checklists, but with a FMC this procedural you need a full manual on how it works not only in detail but with arrow diagrams to programme the FMC in the way that Javier is thinking. The FMC is good, but you work with it like a maze with many dead ends or bugs and you find the core by leaving post-it notes on the wall to get it right next time.

 

With enough time you can the full complete flightplan completed as below, and once it is figured out it is easier to use, but a more flexible way of inserting a flightplan is required at the core of the programming, so it is for the experts only. To help there is a video available in programming the FMC and I have included it below...

 

 

The map view zoom is on the pedestal... a nice touch.  You can use the direct keyboard input by pressing the blank button below the FPL button and the words "KEYB" appears below to show you that you are in that mode.

 

 

The built-in FMC is compatible with AeroSoft's NavDataPro and Navigraph navigation databases.

 

Multi-Function Display (MFD)

 

There are two drop-down menus in the multi-function display with the MAP on the right and SYSTEMS on the left.

 

 

MAP covers covers your: Nav-Aid, Airports, WPTs, PROGRESS (details on the route), Vertical Profile (Lower MFD, Very Nice!), TCAS and Weather and Terrain is on the lower selections.

 

SYSTEMS covers the standard set of pages that cover the aircraft systems...

 

 

Areas covered include: Status, FltCtrl (Flight Controls), Hydr (hydraulics), Fuel, Elec (Electrical), and Anti-Ice.

 

Route locked in and the the aircraft ready it is time for departure. Start sounds are good with the Dreamfoil Sound plug-in installed, but not highly detailed and it is slightly too quiet in the cockpit. There is not that real sound detail in Air-con packs or with rear pumps starting to run, but it is good by most standards.

 

Forward lighting is good with three landing lights with two in the inner wings and one front on the front wheel strut. There is a separate taxi-light (front strut) Side lights (taxiway turn) and wing Inspection lights.

 

Pushback truck is called and controled via the upper mid-screen menu.  Truck turns like it is on a stick pendulum of which I am not a fan, but it works. Harder to use are the small ticks on the menu screen to control it and your view is looking far away from the windows to find those small controls above and guessing where to stop your pushback point...  a few keyboard controls would help.

 

 

Departure was via KATL RWY08R...

 

 

Taxi speed is easily controlled and you can place the aircraft perfectly on the centre line by using the kink in the glareshield.

 

 

Throttle up and if the settings are correct in the FMC you will have FLEX TO-1 automatically, vSpeed tags are also in the Flight Display. Like the Airbus displays you have speed parameters in red and yellow go or no go zones (alpha floor). 

 

 

 

MAP Display and Vertical Profile is very good (shame about the BOLD text)...   With the Yoke in place it is a little tight to all the displays through the ram design, but it looks very good.

 

 

The manipulators are a bit tight in their active areas, and so are hard to use effectively. The V/S (Vertical/Speed) wheel is the worst but also the most highly used for constant adjustments. You use it by two small arrows (find them if you can?) and usually with these sort of arrowed manipulators you hold them down to turn the wheel either up or down...  not here, as they are to be used as a button press per + or - minus altitude change. So they flicker and you search, find them and get usually the arrow you don't want and you are trying to fly an aircraft while buzzing around the Autopilot panel in the area in just wanting to adjust your V/S angle. As with everything you get used to it and clicking one click at a time, but I found in heavy work periods they are seriously frustrating. A lot of the other half-moon manipulators are also too close together and hard to find. Another quirk is the "BANK" as it is two Arrows? and with no indication on the MFD you don't know how to activate the bank function, or if it is actually activated...  I think it is on, I think.

On the same subject of manipulators, on the original version the engine start plastic covers were a pain to open and close. The idea has been change from a single click and start to separating the opening of the covers with a click and then a half-moon manipulator to start. It works, but just as the manipulator active area is so small you need a lot of patience to actually find it, and getting right down by the floor behind the pedestal will help you finally find that coveted opening hot spot...

 

 

Three PROG...  Progress pages have a load of information, and the FMC is accessible in the air.

 

 

Route data and two page radio is very good. The E-Jet series was always a nice machine in the air, and the quality shows from all viewpoints. External sounds are again good but not over brilliant, but you don't get that distance droning that tires you out.

 

 

Lighting

 

 

The cockpit lighting is years away better than the original version, and very nice it is too. There is not a huge amount of adjustment because I don't think the real aircraft has a lot either. The downlighting of the main displays looks lovely, but the higher glareshield is more darker. The two overhead spot-lights are just a Storm/Dome set and are non-adjustable.

 

 

External lighting is good and standard fair. As noted you have inspection lights and wing lights and the logo tail lighting looks nice at night.

 

 

Arrival at Washington is via IRONS5 into RWY 01. Target altitude on the PFD (Primary Flight Display) is a great help in getting your correct altitude at the right distance from the airport correct. Great working VOR2 and ADF 1 & 2 pointers (selectors arrowed) in the lower PFD are excellent for navigation and lining up your final approach.

 

 

There is not a lot of wind-rush in the air, but great noise sounds when you drop the landing gear, so you get that I'm ready for landing feel.

 

 

There is a nice feel also from the controls to get the aircraft into a position for landing, overall the aircraft is very nice to fly manually, but who does that anymore with a modern regional airliner, automation in here is now in control.

 

But manual flying I am doing on this approach. The E-170LR will allow you with FULL flap go down into the middle-twenties with approach speed, but beware that get it just too slightly slower and it will stall on you very quickly, so it is best to stay in the low 130knts range which is safer and more controllable

 

 

The complex flaps and their animation is beautifully done, but my feather-weight landing didn't activate the wing spoilers that are automatically activated on landing.

 

 

The reversers are excellent in fine detail...

 

 

Regional flying is hard work with multiple sectors in one day, so it is off with one load and get ready for the next.... 

 

 

Liveries

 

 

You get a wide selection of very good liveries, this (above) is the "New" factory E170 livery which is very nice.

 

You also get mostly two sets of the same livery in a "Clean" version and a "Dirty" version, I have shown all the dirty versions here because of space.

 

Factory livery (old version) is also the default.

 

 

 

Liveries double include Air Canada, Air France, Alitalia (New), British Airways, American Eagle, Delta Connection, Eygptair, Agean Airlines (Clean only), Azul, Flybe and JAL.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Summary

 

Three years can be a long time in X-Plane, and what was once an interesting and detailed aircraft became almost old-fashioned very quickly. This new "Evolution" version does far more than just update an old design to current standards. It is a complete back to the boards and a total redesign of the aircraft and that deep design work certainly shows here. Almost everything is new (you can see a few things moved over but they are just that... few) and so you can't really compare the two but it is nice to see the differences.

 

There is a huge amount of great features and ideas and I really love the total concept of it all, but there are also small niggly things that should not be on an aircraft of this price range, as this is total pro territory. Yes the aircraft is very professional but that extra 3% in the finish can make or break the aircraft. It just slips over the mark because most of these niggles are easily updated as they certainly will be by SSG, but they should not be there in the first place.

 

BOLD text looks horrible and no display reflections should not have got to the release stage. Pushback is hard to use and you need to take a deep breath and not look down through the gap if you are going from the cockpit to the cabin or vise-versa. Manipulator activation areas are too small and you can't find the manipulators and they are messy to use, with the V/S the hardest to use of all. Sounds are good, but now they have moved on, expect better in an upgrade. Overall here you are not flying the aircraft as smoothly as you can because of small factors.

 

The very deep and extensive FMC by Javier Cortes is complex by design and has no elegance in procedure if you make a mistake and sometimes completely confusing if a ) not done one before, or b ) in that some items are duplicated to do the same action and standard button or menu items like a simple (exec) or (direct) are hard to find or use, I understand that the Honeywell unit does not have these functions but there has to be more of an elegance of getting those important actions working correctly. Get a simple command wrong and you are up short street without a torch, and the only way out is to restart the whole thing and start again, and even if you do get it right, it takes way to long (unless you are a total master or the developer) in inputting again the whole plan and aircraft parameters within the usual 30min turnaround time, in most cases you would not put yourself all through that and simply fly something else.  And that is a real shame as the aircraft is overall very good to excellent when it all programmed in correctly, it is just getting to that point. No doubt FMC's are hard to use and programme, but they also have a simplicity of the way they do their job.

 

My advice is to live with this aircraft to really understand the deepness of it. It does have a large learning curve and the FMC in it's current state would need an understanding of how FMC's are programmed and used. Once you use it more then the more it will come to you and the deeper levels of enjoyment the "Evo" can then be brought to the surface. Yes this is a huge and very nice update with a lot of investment by SSG of their E-170LR aircraft, and it has some really great clever features and it is certainly a worthy investment if you like great regional airliners.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________  

 

The Embraer E-Jet 170LR Evolution v1.07 by Supercritical Simulation Group is NOW available! from the X-Plane.Org Store here :

 

Embraer E-Jet170LR Evolution

 

Your Price: $49.95   Note: if you are already a owner of SSG's E-170LR or the E190 you get upgrade to the "Evolution" version with a US$10 discount! to the price of US$39.95, so Please email sales@x-plane.org to get your discount code and include you original purchase order number.
  Features:

Advanced FMC and Navigation system

• Custom-built FMC (done by FJCC)  designed for the SSG Evolution Series
• SIDs, STARs, transitions, approaches, flare and rollout modes.
• FMC is compatible with AeroSoft's NavDataPro and Navigraph navigation databases.
• Manufacturer's performance data embedded as tables in the fully functional FMC.
• Option to use either a 2D pop-up (resizable) FMC or one within the 3D cockpit.
• Custom radio communication audio consoles optimized for on-line virtual ATC operations.
• FMC performance information based on real aircraft data, including calculated V-speeds.
• FMC includes capability for autotuning navaid frequencies.
• Vertical Situation Display (VSD) on the MFD.
• Terrain display mode on the MFD, which is a part of the Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System (EGPWS) on the real aircraft.

High-Res 3D modeling complete with detailed animations and textures.

• Realistic displays (PFD, MFD with system synoptics, and EICAS)
• External lights and strobes operating realistically.
• Display management similar to that in the real aircraft.
• Autobrakes with anti-skid system that works in all conditions and includes a realistic rejected takeoff mode.
• Realistic wing flex and other animations.
• Window rain effects and animated wipers.
• Option menu incorporated into the cockpit 3D.
• Ground vehicles include a tow truck, GPU and airstairs.
• Over 10 detailed liveries comes with the plane

Custom systems and Flight Model

• Aircraft will meet most of the real aircraft's performance data for consumption, AOA, speeds, flight dynamics, etc. in close consultation with real world E-Jet pilots.
• Realistic 3D cockpit with high resolution.
• Many systems are implemented with realistic logic, such as electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic, engine fire extinguishing, fuel, wing and engine anti-ice (including automatic mode), communications, and TCAS.
• Comprehensive autopilot functioning in modes similar to those of the real aircraft
• First Officer's MFD display is independent from the Captain's, and MFD has a pop-up option.
• EICAS messages based on the real aircraft's with lists and scrolling

DreamEngine Sound System

• 3D sounds with DreamEngine plugin.

 

Requirements

X-Plane 10.45 + (any edition) running in 64bit mode
Windows, Mac or Linux - 64bit Operating System
1Gb VRAM Minimum. 2Gb+ VRAM Recommended

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________  

Installation and documents:

Download for the Embraer E-Jet 170LR Evolution is 606.30mg and the unzipped file is deposited in the "Heavy Metal" X-Plane folder at 952.80mg.

 

There is a "Quick Start Guide" manual (44 Pages) and comes with included checklist Sheets .

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Review by Stephen Dutton

22nd July 2016

Copyright©2016: X-PlaneReviews

 

Review System Specifications:

Computer System: Windows  - Intel Core i7 6700K CPU 4.00GHz / 64bit - 16 Gb single 1067 Mhz DDR4 2133 - GeForce GTX 980/SSE2 - Samsung Evo 512gb SSD 

Software:   - Windows 10 - X-Plane 10 Global ver 10.45

Addons: Saitek x52 Pro system Joystick and Throttle : Sound - Bose  Soundlink Mini

 

Scenery or Aircraft

- KATL - KATL - Atlanta International by Nimbus (X-Plane.OrgStore) - US$23.95

- KDCA - Ronald Reagan - Washington National by Tropicalsim - No idea if this scenery is still available? And I still call it "National!"

 

 

[Guest NGN]

What is the E170 evolution like compared to the Xcrafts E-175.

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Guest NGN said:

What is the E170 evolution like compared to the Xcrafts E-175.

 

It comes down to pros and cons, but basically they are very similar now and more of a choice of feel. At this point the SSG 170LR is slightly better and has a better panel, but the X-Craft's is coming out with an upgrade very soon. The SSG E-170LR needs a lot of time to really get under its skin to get the very best out of it, but get there and it will reward you. SD

[Ricardo Bolognini]

6 hours ago, Stephen said:

 

It comes down to pros and cons, but basically they are very similar now and more of a choice of feel. At this point the SSG 170LR is slightly better and has a better panel, but the X-Craft's is coming out with an upgrade very soon. The SSG E-170LR needs a lot of time to really get under its skin to get the very best out of it, but get there and it will reward you. SD

 

Thanks

[Ricardo Bolognini]

Again Thanks

[Fab10]

An excellent review of an excellent aircraft, Stephen - thanks. 

 

The SSG E170 Evolution is very nice, and a welcome addition to my hangar. It is certainly a far superior product to its SSG predecessor stablemate, but improvements we would naturally expect. Whilst the former model might reasonably be seen as a "lite", SSG's E170 Evolution is surely positioned higher in the league, and ranked and judged accordingly?

 

The FMC is bespoke, with much of it depicted with an Embraer styled overlay, but underlying UFMC Boeing core FMC components do at times show through. This can change the immersion level, especially when Boeing derivative FMC menu's appear in your Embraer VC. 

 

One of my gripes is as Stephen pointed out to do with some of the mouse click spots that canne hard to find, for instance the altitude selector (fast up), as well as some of the upper light switches, as I tend to inadvertently operate switches other than the one I am trying to!

 

The seat texturing is below par at this price point, as is some detailing on the sidewalls including the tiller and oxygen mask; my commenting on this is essentially driven by product pricing. 

 

The VC lighting would benefit from a revision; having just watched several E-Jet YouTube videos, the main panel downlighting should be much brighter with a greater range of adjustment. 

 

It is a known fact that the little LED's above the glare shield controls are not illuminatedy as standard by Embraer, as this is a customer option that is apparently not terribly popular. As an Embraer customer myself (of sorts!), I'd very much like SSG to make this a clickable option, as interpreting LED's within a VC is possibly easier than gauging PFD acronyms, This would be a perfect option for SSG's in-VC menu system - LED's ON/OFF. Some of the PFD notations don't necessarily correspond as I might expect them to, but admittedly this may be my lack of clarity, due in part to not having a manual, and knowing well the old and venerable Wilco / feelThere E-Jet series.

 

Also to be noted is that a full user manual is yet to be delivered, and that a paint kit is said to be enroute. That said, the supplied liveries are diverse and outstanding as they are, and knowing SSG as the prolific livery makers that they are, those liveries will keep on coming. 

 

Having watched several more YouTube Embraer videos, it seems to me that the PFD/ND displays are possibly slightly inaccurate, though not wildly so; for instance, the placement of the excellent vertical profile is slightly at odds with the real aircraft, and WX radar labelling is missing where it should sit on the opposite side to the TCAS settings. 

 

These latter issues are minor, and perhaps SSG might easily address them. However, reflecting on the fact that SSG have moved their products upmarket, customer expectations have thus been proportionally raised, and when comparing other products by price range, it may be reasonable to expect SSG to tackle some if not all of the comments raised. 

 

After all, once done, the product will very much stand up in its own right - it's already very good, and already a sound favourite of mine, but imagine how good it will then be?

[Guest EmelarNZ]

Thanks for the very thorough review Stephen. Just noting that the upgrade deal is a $10 discount on the full price (rather than a $10 upgrade as you state).  The upgrade is still US$39.95 even with the discount.  

[Stephen]

8 hours ago, Guest EmelarNZ said:

Thanks for the very thorough review Stephen. Just noting that the upgrade deal is a $10 discount on the full price (rather than a $10 upgrade as you state).  The upgrade is still US$39.95 even with the discount.  

 

Done... Thanks!

[Dionsol]

Hello Stephen,

Thank you very much for your review and it is greatly appreciated for users such as myself who are discerning customers.  At this point in time, I'm an owner of the Embraer 170 original, regrettably I'll have to pass on this aircraft.  The reason is simple, "they overprice the aircraft".  Yes I know this is subjective and you've got the early adopters wanting the "new shiny" and willing to pay the high price that it is.  That is fine if they want to spend their money that way, that's their business.  

But for me who is a conscious buyer, I was put off by the price point and was expecting the price to be right around $34.95 which seems to be the normal pattern at the X-Plane.org store.  The aircraft to me based on the promotional video did not visually seem to be overly better than the one that I already have as far is a visual appearance inside the cockpit is concern.  Now outside the cockpit however, yes it does look better than what I have (and it should).  
With the concerns that you said in your review even brings me to more pause in purchasing the aircraft.  Yes I get the $10.00 discount which is cool but the price point after discount should've been $24.95.  Then I feel it would've been justified.

 

At the current price point, I'm still paying $39.99 which is $5.00 more than the X-craft 175.  If anything, if someone does the simple math this is going to drive the sales for X-craft 175 over the E170 which is a shame.  For me I was looking forward to this aircraft and did have conversations with Ricardo in the past about the aircraft.  So getting my expectations up for the aircraft and then the price point happened and killed it for me.  

 

To add insult to injury, my existing aircraft files on my account at the X-Plane.org store had been removed so me as a customer will no longer have access to the backups in case of unforeseen event that would lose something that you paid for.  This puts me as a customer at risk which is disappointing.  The resolution to this problem would have been simple by just taking the old models (E170 & the E190) that I have purchased and downgraded them to the download section at X-Plane.org so I would have least still have access to the files if a unforeseen event happened.  Removing something that I have purchased was not the thing to do.

 

So in summing up 2 errors happened, the aircraft is overpriced, and removing something that I paid for was removed from access in the future.  This is not cool and not good business.  As a side note I was expecting the old files to be removed from the store and not for purchase but what I paid for to remain on my X-Plane.org account.  I know the files are old, but to me that does not matter because they're functional.  I am using the aircraft as of this post with XPflier.net which is an economy program similar to FS economy.  The E170 & E190 aircraft are featured and that economy module aircraft list for users to purchase during their pilots career using XPflier.net.  I can go on and on my disappointment which would end up boring you to tears.

The community's comments are always welcome
Dion Markgraf
AKA: Dionsol
Flight Simulation (X-Plane 10 pilot) & Aviation Enthusiast
Youtube: https://youtube.com/user/dionm01
PS: All comments and concerns were expressed as of July 25, 2016 at 6:21 AM PDT.  Things will change as you now
 

[Ricardo Bolognini]

4 hours ago, Dionsol said:

Hello Stephen,

Thank you very much for your review and it is greatly appreciated for users such as myself who are discerning customers.  At this point in time, I'm an owner of the Embraer 170 original, regrettably I'll have to pass on this aircraft.  The reason is simple, "they overprice the aircraft".  Yes I know this is subjective and you've got the early adopters wanting the "new shiny" and willing to pay the high price that it is.  That is fine if they want to spend their money that way, that's their business.  

But for me who is a conscious buyer, I was put off by the price point and was expecting the price to be right around $34.95 which seems to be the normal pattern at the X-Plane.org store.  The aircraft to me based on the promotional video did not visually seem to be overly better than the one that I already have as far is a visual appearance inside the cockpit is concern.  Now outside the cockpit however, yes it does look better than what I have (and it should).  
With the concerns that you said in your review even brings me to more pause in purchasing the aircraft.  Yes I get the $10.00 discount which is cool but the price point after discount should've been $24.95.  Then I feel it would've been justified.

 

At the current price point, I'm still paying $39.99 which is $5.00 more than the X-craft 175.  If anything, if someone does the simple math this is going to drive the sales for X-craft 175 over the E170 which is a shame.  For me I was looking forward to this aircraft and did have conversations with Ricardo in the past about the aircraft.  So getting my expectations up for the aircraft and then the price point happened and killed it for me.  

 

To add insult to injury, my existing aircraft files on my account at the X-Plane.org store had been removed so me as a customer will no longer have access to the backups in case of unforeseen event that would lose something that you paid for.  This puts me as a customer at risk which is disappointing.  The resolution to this problem would have been simple by just taking the old models (E170 & the E190) that I have purchased and downgraded them to the download section at X-Plane.org so I would have least still have access to the files if a unforeseen event happened.  Removing something that I have purchased was not the thing to do.

 

So in summing up 2 errors happened, the aircraft is overpriced, and removing something that I paid for was removed from access in the future.  This is not cool and not good business.  As a side note I was expecting the old files to be removed from the store and not for purchase but what I paid for to remain on my X-Plane.org account.  I know the files are old, but to me that does not matter because they're functional.  I am using the aircraft as of this post with XPflier.net which is an economy program similar to FS economy.  The E170 & E190 aircraft are featured and that economy module aircraft list for users to purchase during their pilots career using XPflier.net.  I can go on and on my disappointment which would end up boring you to tears.

The community's comments are always welcome
Dion Markgraf
AKA: Dionsol
Flight Simulation (X-Plane 10 pilot) & Aviation Enthusiast
Youtube: https://youtube.com/user/dionm01
PS: All comments and concerns were expressed as of July 25, 2016 at 6:21 AM PDT.  Things will change as you now
 

Hi Dionsol thanks for your comment , expressing your point of view. We plan to release the Old  E-jets as freeware, then you should download in any time you like in the X-plane Org forum or in our proper page. Stay tuned.

[Dionsol]

18 minutes ago, Ricardo Bolognini said:

Hi Dionsol thanks for your comment , expressing your point of view. We plan to release the Old  E-jets as freeware, then you should download in any time you like in the X-plane Org forum or in our proper page. Stay tuned.

Thank you Ricardo for your response is greatly appreciated.  I'm glad that you will make the files available for users such as myself.  I hope sales for you are well, but as I stated above I really feel strongly that the price point was over the top.  If anything it should have been competitive with X crafts product.  From an outsider or a new person coming in to the simulation, who is a budget conscious individual.  Would look at both aircraft and would more than likely choose X-craft product over yours.  And that is sad because as a longtime users your product I would not want to see sales taken away from the hard work that you put into the product.  Best of luck to you sir and hope all is well.

 

As a side note, regrettably at this point in less the price point is altered, I too am also leaning towards the X crafts version over yours.  And I want to stress it's not because you made a bad product, that is contrary to the truth.  It's just that price matters when you are on a budget and have limited resources to spend your simulation dollars on.

Dion Markgraf
AKA: Dionsol
Flight Simulation (X-Plane 10 Pilot) & Aviation Enthusiast

[Ricardo Bolognini]

2 hours ago, Dionsol said:

Thank you Ricardo for your response is greatly appreciated.  I'm glad that you will make the files available for users such as myself.  I hope sales for you are well, but as I stated above I really feel strongly that the price point was over the top.  If anything it should have been competitive with X crafts product.  From an outsider or a new person coming in to the simulation, who is a budget conscious individual.  Would look at both aircraft and would more than likely choose X-craft product over yours.  And that is sad because as a longtime users your product I would not want to see sales taken away from the hard work that you put into the product.  Best of luck to you sir and hope all is well.

 

As a side note, regrettably at this point in less the price point is altered, I too am also leaning towards the X crafts version over yours.  And I want to stress it's not because you made a bad product, that is contrary to the truth.  It's just that price matters when you are on a budget and have limited resources to spend your simulation dollars on.

Dion Markgraf
AKA: Dionsol
Flight Simulation (X-Plane 10 Pilot) & Aviation Enthusiast

Hi we make planes for XP because we loves it, don't take it for this side , not all is money, Expend too much money if you don't care for systems and a  complete FMC with  SID,STAR, APP, plus a very fine flight dynamics  don't make much sense. We will keep updating our products, may one day you will get ours . thanks

[Dionsol]

Thank you sir for the interaction, it is most appreciated.  Is good to see the developers interact with the customers.  Best of luck to you and your fellow team members on your future endeavors.  Maybe one day, who knows what the future will hold.
Dion

[MercuryMat]

I lost one hour programming the fmc...then I had no more time to fly the plane. Each error forced me to start again and I found many problems in putting some waypoints (North Atlantic coordinates for example). And I did not understand how to save and recall flight plans. This fmc (and the push-back) is horrible and I hope it is my fault because otherwise I will, again, request a refund for that purchase, as I did for the 747-8.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Mad Mat said:

I lost one hour programming the fmc...then I had no more time to fly the plane. Each error forced me to start again and I found many problems in putting some waypoints (North Atlantic coordinates for example). And I did not understand how to save and recall flight plans. This fmc (and the push-back) is horrible and I hope it is my fault because otherwise I will, again, request a refund for that purchase, as I did for the 747-8.

 

You lost an hour, I lost four days! That is not completely true but it did take four days and a few flights to work it out, as noted it is very procedural and unforgiving to any mistakes. Not the easiest FMC to use but once you get your head around it, it works. I would stay with it for now Mat and see how it plans out. SD

[MercuryMat]

lly hope they will work out some of the problems...the FMC is the most important part of liners and should be not complicated to be used!

[Fab10]

Hi,

 

Lots of comments to analyse, it appears that this aeroplane has caused some issues!

 

However, it is actually very flyable. Think of the FMC as being part-Boeing and part-Embraer, and remember that you can always grab X-Plane .FMC flight plans via the "navdata" entry under the FMC's menu, and to execute this, press the lower-most FMC button on the RHS.

 

This might help create plans more easily, but that said, it is very possible to enter flight plans via the Boeing FMC or via the Embraer FMC portions of the display. Searching the web for feelThere's old E-Jet V2 PDF manual might be another viable source of additional information to guide you through the FMC setup.

 

There are issues, however, when moving through various AP and AT modes, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes easier to fly (obviously!).

 

Best wishes,

Fabio

 

[Fab10]

The complexity of FMC's varies model by model, and possibly it's an unavoidable fact of aviation life that the more FMC's can do, the more we will need to learn them on an aircraft by aircraft basis.

 

In fact, and just like any other aircraft FMC, once the Embraer FMC becomes known to you, it becomes an familiar old friend, so just give it time, but do try to check-out the PDF I mentioned as it may give you some pointers.

 

I once mentioned to a E-Jet Captain friend of mine about the apparent complexity (or did I mean difference?) between Boeing types and the Q400 FMC, and he said that up until he flew Embraer after Q400's, that the Dash FMC was "normal" and that he hadn't considered that other aircraft FMC were really any different. Just wait until an accurate facsimile of the Q400 Universal FMC comes into XP, there'd be no point in talking to the developer!...

 

However, until FMC's are 100% accurately portrayed within X-Plane, we might need to apply a little bit of Boeing, Airbus or Embraer know-how into our button pushing, but in essence it is the delivery of accurate FMC's that is mission critical if developer's wish to enter the upstream market, and in this regard SSG, FlightFactor, and even IXEG have work to do, some more than others, but as it is, they are mostly doing OK, just a few more tweaks and we will be there, of that I am sure. BTW, I am not discussing the intention of delivering fully fledged FMC's, I am considering what we have right now.

 

We are seeing improvements everywhere. are we not?

[Sherwood]

I am considering purchasing this plane, I had it in FSX and really liked it. As I read the reviews above (all very helpful, thank you) I am wondering whether you can import XP flightplans into the FMC. I have a stand-alone flight planner that I like, and I don't want to struggle as I try to learn a new one. What is it with these FMCs anyway? They don't need to be that complicated!

[Stephen]

10 hours ago, Fab10 said:

The complexity of FMC's varies model by model, and possibly it's an unavoidable fact of aviation life that the more FMC's can do, the more we will need to learn them on an aircraft by aircraft basis...

 

...   We are seeing improvements everywhere. are we not?

 

FMC's are certainly the hardest things to build in X-Plane, very complicated and can be very buggy. But a good FMC is were you have a elegance and fluidity in the operation in setting one up. The trick is not the actual line by line input programming that has to be right when you input the data, but the fluidity on if you make a mistake and need to change it, it will do so without destroying all the current work already in there, and the adaptability in if you have to say change your approach STAR while in flight. input Flow is important as well in that you go from area to area like from flightplan inputs to preferences are also seemless, there is no point in adding in more and more FMC features until the basic areas are right and working perfectly, in reality almost every FMC is the same but with just the different ways of inputting the same data. Once you get one FMC you should understand all of them.

 

But the real problem is when you input one thing and you get something totally different. Like here I set up the departure airport of KATL and arrival airport of KDCA and in the flightplan I got KDCA as my departure airport?..  that is not acceptable, and it is not like Javier Cortes is new at this setup of programming FMC's as he has been doing this for as long as I have been in X-Plane and that is at least six years now, and there been plenty of time to refine the programming, I am not in any area suggesting it is easy to do these things, because it is not, but at least the basic code systems should be solid by now. SD

[Dionsol]

2 hours ago, Sherwood said:

I am considering purchasing this plane, I had it in FSX and really liked it. As I read the reviews above (all very helpful, thank you) I am wondering whether you can import XP flightplans into the FMC. I have a stand-alone flight planner that I like, and I don't want to struggle as I try to learn a new one. What is it with these FMCs anyway? They don't need to be that complicated!

If you decide to buy the plane then that's great for you, I hope you enjoy it. Everybody has different reasons, in what they want and that is good. After I did the math for me, I felt it wasn't worth it at this time. I'm I going to sit here and say I'll never buy it in the future, No. But to be true to my convictions, I put my money where my mouth is and yesterday bought the X-Crafts E-175 instead for $34.95 USD. For me that aircraft was a better economical fit.  But to each his own, best of luck to you and your endeavors.
Dion Markgraf
AKA: Dionsol
Flight Simulation (X-Plane 10 pilot) & Aviation Enthusiast
Youtuber: Youtube.com/user/dionm01

PS: if you do decide to purchase the aircraft please drop us a line and let us know what you think.  The community comments are always welcomed and encouraged.  Building a community, one person at a time.

[Stephen]

4 hours ago, Sherwood said:

I am considering purchasing this plane, I had it in FSX and really liked it. As I read the reviews above (all very helpful, thank you) I am wondering whether you can import XP flightplans into the FMC. I have a stand-alone flight planner that I like, and I don't want to struggle as I try to learn a new one. What is it with these FMCs anyway? They don't need to be that complicated!

 

To be clear any E-Jet in X-Plane does not have a FSX version, so whatever you flew in FSX is not any of these aircraft. Unless you buy an older Embraer like Dan Klaue's ERJ 140 Regional Jet then all the modern aircraft now use FMC's and can't input X-Plane's fms flightplans, but they are worth learning as X-Plane moves more and more to built in FMC aircraft. SD

[Fab10]

Hi,

Yes, it is possible to open .FMS flight plans in the E170's FMC. 

Press NAV, then NAVDATA, and when the message appears to open FMC plans press the lower most RH LSK, and this will take you to the familiar XP FMC flight plan page. 

Therefore, yes, you can export from your favourite planner in .FMS format. 

Fabio

[Fab10]

3 hours ago, Stephen said:

 

To be clear any E-Jet in X-Plane does not have a FSX version, so whatever you flew in FSX is not any of these aircraft. Unless you buy an older Embraer like Dan Klaue's ERJ 140 Regional Jet then all the modern aircraft now use FMC's and can't input X-Plane's fms flightplans, but they are worth learning as X-Plane moves more and more to built in FMC aircraft. SD

Stephen,

I absolutely agree, FMC's as the heart and soul of an aircraft should precisely mirror their real world counterpart. 

I have not test found the discrepancies that you mention, and indeed, that sounds like it is a bug of a critical nature. 

I had hoped to put a positive spin on the negativity surrounding this model. 

Let me put that another way; my newly found enthusiasm for the Embraer E-Jets led me to reinstall my old feelThere product, but to my surprise, it was showing its age more so than I had expected. In turn, this served to highlight the good points of SSG's effort, such as the really rather good modelling, though it did rather show up the FMC's discrepancies. 

My gripe with the X-Crafts E-Jet was the non-standard FMC that neither looked like or felt like an Embraer unit, whereas SSG have made an effort to visually match at least some of the Embraer's FMC. 

The entire FMC unit, however, should have zero Boeing-esque elements to it, even if the underlying structures are indeed JC's UFMC. 

SSG, to enter into the upper echelons on this market, the detailing, texturing, and systems of the aircraft must more resemble in form and function the product that they based upon. 

The Evolution does this to a reasonable extent, but to fully warrant its price, the aircraft should have deeper and more reliable  systems depth at it heart, and an enhanced quality at its interface, and by this I mean where we as pilots sit as well as how we interact with it. 

Good try, nice aeroplane, though this won't stop me looking forward to more in the way of revisions.

Best wishes,

Fabio

[Ricardo Bolognini]

 Today an airliner that has not an FMC is not a good way to go. Wherever  it is not a ease task. True FMC's is made

by people that does it in a long time and grew up making more modern one each year and every time it get more and more  advanced.And costs  millions dollars it developments. We SSG may can not follow this development , because it the most  XP FMCs working "Elegant" is from 90' "a very known" FMC  and believe i can find Tricks . Well people want a complete simulated FMC , that involves "Factory secrets "and hard coding development  for 30USD.

We SSG decided to release the plane when it got  ok for that, and we knows when it is released the  Bugs pops everywhere. But  Reviewers, Twichers and Purchasers  still waiting for the "pearl", a "0" buggy stuff.  So many input is made when it is updated and almost bugs too.  I fill that XP is over, it became a big 3D render that the simulation itself don't makes any difference since it has a nice  eye candy, if it has a complete ease and friendly FMC that makes things in your place, so then you don't need study,  that gives you speeds  etc.

Like the FS world  that the plane behaviors is some thing that  flight dynamics don't exists. May we the SSG will keep the place of the OLD guys"The Old School", that ones that makes ACF for Siming and not for  SS. "ScreenShots". The FMC we plan to get it almost Embraer's  like but it will take a time.

I look for the future and  what I see is an   X-plane with few developers making a only type of plane that does all the same and flies the same. We do the thing with love, we try to get back a little of the time invested in study and development and the counterpart , the user "purchaser" . Should give inputs and support the Devs is the better way to go.Go to fly.

Almost grips in our  E-170 FMC we are working on it. Almost bugs related in the FMC we expect this next Saturday a  SP1 that has ironed a lot of reported bugs and some project fixes. People in this comments  are talking better is to buy the "X-crafts" that is cheaper , the prices fits . Do you know what X-crafts does an what  SSG E-170 does ? Why the  guys don't make a compare review. What X-crafts does and what our  SSG E-170 does. Starting with how the plane sits in the ground, and then pushing the  BATT ON. Not only be talking that it is better or cheaper . That is empty words.

What I can tell is that the SSG E-170 has a nice Custom FMC that give you a condition to go from Gate to Gate using all modern features like SID, STAR, APP, Landing. Gives you the V speeds , then you don't need go books to get it, a very nice  AP and  instruments displays like the PFD and  MFD and systems automated like is the true one. A first rate  flight quality in terms of flight dynamics and a very nice looking plus more then 100 liveries. And for the  people that expends it time to go to a comment into a review to tell that the plane is not good without have got it and say that another from concurrence is better . I can just say  I'm sorry about.

 

Thanks

Ricardo Bolognini

SSG Designer - Ejets  development leader.